Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 21:47:35 GMT
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 14, 2021 23:31:52 GMT
Yep- @testeronline info correct -so new users (pending a better definition of "lifetime subscription" for old users) effectively pay an increase of 25% for purchasing the exact same product that they may have registered on 14th June 2020 - and that additional cost keeps repeating each successive year of use!!! Wow - an impressive increase in revenue for VOLTAS-IT shareholders with just the simple decision by management to milk their cash cows in a different manner!! ... and the avalanche of extra revenue for the corporation comes with effectively no increase in OBD11's operating cost (other than the minuscule cost of creating the accounting system for annual subscription management)!!
So ALL of the additional revenue from PROplan subscriptions is pure PROfit for the shareholder - very nice "earner" indeed!!
The sparse information available means that from a business perspective, the "break-even" point for the subscription decision is a loss of 25% of current sales as a result of users not accepting the new fee. And more wow - Ultimate License - Eur 99.99 per year (ouch- indeed). Again (and as seems to be the normal situation now), very sparse information about this option other than the familiar marketing hype!
What happens to the Intellectual Property (IP) of the APPs that are user developed under the Ultimate License? IP is the REAL value for APPs! I assume that the software scripts that license users write are stored on the user's account on OBD11's servers.
Who owns this IP? Can OBD11 simply access any part of the user developed smarts to further add to the milking process? Or said another way, is the Ultimate License effectively a mechanism whereby users become unpaid code-cutters for OBD11 (actually, "unpaid" is incorrect because these users must pay OBD11 Eur 100/year for the privilege to be "unpaid" code cutters)
And what happens to these APPs and the accompanying IP if the user doesn't renew the annual subscription?
Lot's of unanswered questions, very sloppy introduction of the new business model - IMHO of course!
Don
PS: thanks to whoever was responsible for the marketing dialogue on the webpage for addressing the SFD situation - but it doesn't expunge the reasonable expectation of users that a solution will be available at the end-of-the year (based entirely on OBD11's words)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 7:57:54 GMT
And what happens to these APPs and the accompanying IP if the user doesn't renew the annual subscription? Confirmation from support this morning with regards to using the APPS Morning, if i upgrade to the Ultimate plan and build myself some one click apps, will I still be able to use them next year when I am no longer an ultimate plan user, just a Pro user Support User Edvinas, 08:54 AM Hello, thank you for your message. Once the ULTIMATE subscription will expire, you will not be able to use those applications, but you will be able to see them.
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Post by brickwalls on Jun 15, 2021 9:05:10 GMT
I received this response to part of my enquiry to OBDeleven support."
"Hello.
If you had the PRO version enabled on your account before June 15th 2021, it will stay a lifetime and no change is needed. You do not need to repurchase the PRO again."
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 15, 2021 9:16:39 GMT
@testeronline : thanks for asking the question - you remain a valuable resource to forum members in general, and in this instance a helpful aid to me in particular!
The help-desk answer appears to be consistent with the general corporate value-set that underpins the entire PROplan rollout!
So, the situation is that an ULTIMATE license user pays OBD11 a massive EUR 100 to invent an APP using her own intellect and her own expertise.
For her own personal reasons, the user subsequently decides not to renew her ULTIMATE subscription - perhaps the fee is just too expensive?
When the ULTIMATE license lapses, she then goes back to her former plan where she has access to ALL of OBD11's home-spun ONE CLICK Apps (for which she must pay credits). However, whilst she can see the App that she developed, she has no access to her own invention unless she pays a further recurring fee of EUR 100 for yearly licenses - Unbelievable !!! How many ways are there to milk a cash cow?
Don
PS: although the help-desk answer doesn't confirm my suspicion, it certainly is not inconsistent with the notion that the IP for user developed Apps remains the property of OBD11 (notwithstanding that OBD11 played no part in the "invention/idea/creation-of-the-mind"!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 12:32:28 GMT
I received this response to part of my enquiry to OBDeleven support." "Hello. If you had the PRO version enabled on your account before June 15th 2021, it will stay a lifetime and no change is needed. You do not need to repurchase the PRO again." The new release out today (Android only at this time) V40.00 has been updated. If you go to Profile there is now a new line showing what sort of subscription that you are on.
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Post by warkman on Jun 15, 2021 14:13:07 GMT
So, you nay have lifetime today, but when either your obd11 requires replacing, or a mark 3 comes out, welcome to yearly subscriptions. I’m expecting the mark 3 to appear when the agreement between obd and VAG for 21MY onwards changes to work on the unit
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TK88
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Post by TK88 on Jun 15, 2021 14:43:53 GMT
Obdeleven have to improve their product alooooooooot so it would be worth to pay 100 eur yearly for ultimate. At the moment the pricing and benefits are way off.Allready have pro version but if I would be new member i wouldnt even consider to buy it. Theres much more capable products on thr market. And the support for coding/adaptions etc us also poor comparing to other products available.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 14:45:03 GMT
Would not suprise me if there was a SFD Subscription package as I would expect that VAG will be charging an access fee if nothing else, but as I dont own and never will own one of those cars its not an issue to me. As with all things OBD11 have to compete with other companies, so the pricing needs to be competitive or functionality better than the compatition. Final point VAG are pushing ahead with subscription services big time, however if the gaming world has taught me anything the Hackers will find a workaround over time if there is money to be made. I already saw this morning a spanish user talking about using a hacked APK (And I dont support that in any shape). Never dull on OBD11
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Post by Thirsty on Jun 15, 2021 15:51:57 GMT
So, you nay have lifetime today, but when either your obd11 requires replacing, or a mark 3 comes out, welcome to yearly subscriptions. I’m expecting the mark 3 to appear when the agreement between obd and VAG for 21MY onwards changes to work on the unit The PRO license is not linked to the dongle it is linked to your account. If you buy a new dongle you still have PRO because it's linked to your account
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Post by ozzyosborne on Jun 15, 2021 17:25:20 GMT
On various social media sites there are posts that from 15/06/21 ant newly purchased obd11 pro units will require a yearly Pro Plan subscription, but all units already purchased before that date will continue with lifetime updates. is this true\/
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Post by ozzyosborne on Jun 15, 2021 17:27:44 GMT
IF YOU PURCHASE THE PRO PLAN TODAY, OR HAVE ALREADY PURCHASED PRO PLAN THEN YOU GET PRO SUBSCRIPTION FREE FOR LIFE. ALL PRO PLANS AFTER TODAY WILL PAY AN ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION FEE
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 20:19:25 GMT
ozzyosborne (Love your user name) Afraid there is a small change to your statement, if you purchased it today (15/06/21) then you will get the one year subscription as you can see from the obd11 web site today
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 15, 2021 22:41:59 GMT
hmmm.......I think I know the answer to my question, but I will ask it anyway: According to the digital content part of the product webpage, OBD11 values 100 x credits @ €12.99. So this means that 200 x credits is about the cost of a year's subscription.
Lots of new users (like lots of us) can amass credits that they won't need (@testeronline 6,383 unused credits is very impressive - this has to be the highest unused credit holding). Under the new charging regime, can 200 x unused credits be redeemed against a years subscription?
The rationale for my plea to OBD11 to permit the exchange is that to amass 200 x unused credits, a user must do stuff that is of value to OBD11. For example, the user must either log-in daily and/or watch Google Ads from within the application - and there is a limit of 5 x new credits/day. To emphasize my point, I repeat - these activities by the user are of value to the shareholder. So there is a demonstrable benefit to OBD11 from a user deliberately amassing unused credits to fund a year's subscription.
My strong suspicion is that the answer is NO - but worth asking the question (I think).
Don
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Post by Thirsty on Jun 16, 2021 6:18:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 13:51:22 GMT
Just to complete the info share, IOS Update today 1.5.2 has now option showing your plan and just to add under Settings for both Android and IOS there is a Debug mode option (this is the option that is turned on to support the OCA builder but if you try and use it on a standard or Pro account you just get an info share message saying "This is a licensed feature blah blah upgrade to ULTIMATE"
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probd
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Post by probd on Jun 16, 2021 18:07:06 GMT
@testeronline 6,383 unused credits is very impressive - this has to be the highest unused credit holding Wait...no
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 20:16:26 GMT
Very good, Now I am going to have to start trying harder So anybody out there got more (and no photoshop please)
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 16, 2021 21:16:12 GMT
Wait...no hmm.......... now that's impressive!! Under my suggestion, you have about 68.5 years of subscriptions- truly a "lifetime subscription" Very good, Now I am going to have to start trying harder @testeronline : Your position might still be valid - I'm reminded of my history lessons about Greek mythology, when the Gods on Mount Olympus occasionally took human form (mainly for the express purpose of copulating, or saving humanity - but that's probably too much information!).
With absolutely no offense intended to probd - I suspect that he/she might be a semi-deity from OBD11 HQ, maybe?
Something "not normal" (again no offense intended) about a member with that level of unused credits but with only 2 x other posts (both related to Android bug reports) on the forum since becoming a member in September 2018. And his/her EMAIL address is very interesting!!!
But my apology to probd if my hypothesis is misplaced (and well done)
Don
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 21:32:27 GMT
well its only a bit of fun and lets face it there is nothing to use them on when you mostly code yourself. however just to note back in the day it was very easy to cheat the system to add more credits (lots and lots) i also have on occasion have managed to get the odd extra even after the bug fix re the greek mythology i must be married to Aidos (Greek goddess of shame, modesty, respect, and humility) so i thank you for your comment but i am very happy to be second
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Post by mafketel on Jun 17, 2021 13:42:40 GMT
Well that was fun to read just now I got the message pay now or lose your pro license......
Luckily the text is wrong since I already had a pro license since forever.
I think we can say that this was a bit of a communication fiasco .....
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probd
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Post by probd on Jun 17, 2021 17:56:01 GMT
well its only a bit of fun and lets face it there is nothing to use them on when you mostly code yourself. That's very true, and it's the reason why my credits aren't likely to decrease any time soon (or ever). Better way to go is knowing what you're doing and keep your hands off the one click apps. Anyway, it's fun to collect credits for free. With absolutely no offense intended to probd - I suspect that he/she might be a semi-deity from OBD11 HQ, maybe? Sorry for most likely disappointing you, but no, I'm not affiliated with OBDEleven in any way, just using the OBDeleven app since forever, so I had plenty of time to work on my credit score.
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Post by OBDeleven on Jun 18, 2021 6:08:02 GMT
Thank you for the ideas, unfortunately that is not possible.
Moreover, PRO users still need credits.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jun 19, 2021 1:33:53 GMT
Thank you for the ideas, unfortunately that is not possible. @migerd: hmm......... as I said "My strong suspicion is that the answer is NO" - but thanks for the forum response Don
PS: I acknowledge that of course, these decisions (without explanation) are entirely the prerogative of the shareholder
Moreover, PRO users still need credits. I'm fully aware that under the PROplan, "PRO users still need credits" - but with all due respect - that's exactly the point of my suggestion (which OBD11 appears to have missed)!! MY POINT IS - Why does a prospective new user buy a PRO license? Or asked in terms of formal purchasing theory - what is the "value proposition" for a purchaser giving OBD11 €24.99/year of her hard earned money (i.e. what motivates a purchaser to spend the money and what does she get in return)?
Of course there are lots of possible answers - but perhaps key amongst these is the desire to manually code - rather than using credits which is always possible without the additional cost.
So- because a PRO license user is effectively swapping one-click Apps for manual coding it MUST follow that a PRO license should have a reduced need of credits ("reduced" meaning as small as zero). This is just pure logic based on simple reasoning - nothing more!!
Therefore - AND THIS IS MY POINT - without my suggestion (and all else remaining unchanged), OBD11 should expect less revenue from credits from a PRO license user; instead OBD11 effectively receives the PRO license fee - €24.99/year as a quasi-substitute-for/part-addition-to credit revenue. Moreover, as the PRO license user becomes more experienced, OBD11's credit revenue from the user should get smaller-and-smaller with time - again, just simple logic!
If OBD11 believes that revenue from credits remains unchanged when a user buys a PRO license, then I suggest (with due humility) that the shareholder seriously examines the business basis for that belief!!
Now - assuming that OBD11 truly values credits in the same way that it charges users (i.e. 100 x credits = €12.99), my suggestion offers an opportunity to restore the lost revenue (albeit, in kind rather than in cash), and maybe to even increase the revenue - from the same users that caused the underlying reduction to happen. THAT'S MY POINT!
BUT- If there is no corporate appetite for the suggestion - I will concentrate instead on solving a far easier problem; curing world poverty!!
Don
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Post by fatjon on Jul 4, 2021 13:03:52 GMT
I hope I am being too cynical but I have seen this before with other apps. The pro lifetime subscription will be exactly as described. A pro subscription to OBD Eleven App. Then a new app will appear with a new name, maybe OBD 12 and all development of the old app stops so it becomes useless.
I got stung with an app called “Roomie Remote” like this. Suddenly the new version arrives, called “simple control”. My lifetime subscription for “roomie remote” continues but with no support for new devices or even the same device if it fails and I buy a replacement.
I hope I am wrong.
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red
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Post by red on Aug 1, 2021 10:39:28 GMT
If I purchase a used OBDeleven from before the cut off will it have life time subscription?
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Post by Thirsty on Aug 1, 2021 11:21:49 GMT
red The license is not linked to the dongle which means you would need to buy an account from someone that had PRO before the change.
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red
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Post by red on Aug 1, 2021 14:35:15 GMT
That's a shame, ok thanks
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Post by krzysiekra on Oct 17, 2021 19:16:33 GMT
One suggestion to PRO/Ultimate licensing - couldn't it be life time for private use like before 15th od June - say up to 10 vehicles?
Second one would be activation pro/ultimate features for points.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2022 13:21:12 GMT
Thanks for this interesting information!
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