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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 19, 2019 11:26:59 GMT
So I got a used 16 GTI US Spec and just installed aftermarket replica LED tails. Used OBDEleven and online coding instructions to get amber turn functionality. But do not have the inner tails red lights functioning in any function. Ambers work, reverse lights work, but no red running lights on the inners only.
I believe the previous owner must have done some coding because I can't be sure the standard tail lights worked before I switched them out. I have turned the adaptation channels Leuchte20BR LA71, Leuchte21BR RC8, Leuchte23SL HLC10, and Leuchte24SL HRA65 back to stock and back again.
I may have a problem with channel Leuchte27NSL RC6 but cannot find the stock values or what they should be with after market LEDs.
Can anyone please help?
Thanks in advance.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 19, 2019 11:36:18 GMT
^^ ^^^ try this (it's from a NAR - MY16 GTI S):
Leuchte27NSL RC6 Lasttyp 27 > 36 - LED Kleinleistung Lampendefektbitposition 27 > 0 Fehlerort mittleres Byte DTC-DFCC 27 > 47 Lichtfunktion A 27 > Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht) Lichtfunktion B 27 > not active Dimmwert AB 27 > 127 Lichtansteuerung HD AB 27 > Always
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 19, 2019 12:42:54 GMT
Just tried those values and got no change.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 19, 2019 23:56:26 GMT
Just tried those values and got no change. OK - let's confirm a few underlying facts. The wiring loom for the 2 x inner tail light positions do not have a connection to pin #6 on socket C of the BCM (or, what OBD11 calls Central electrics) for OEM incandescent lamp fittings. This happens for RoW cars and I'm fairly sure that NAR vehicles is the same.
So when you say "I just installed aftermarket replica LED tails" what exactly does this mean?
What normally happens with retrofitting after-market LED tail-light assemblies is that the manufacturer solves the problem of the lack of wires in the tail-light loom by "thieving" some of the existing wires via a cross-connection cable. Normally this is done by connecting common lamps on both sides of the car via the same wire back to the BCM. For example the Brake lights (which have separate wires back to the BCM for left and right side lamps) are operated with the one wire (i.e. in parallel)- thus freeing-up a wire for another LED lamp.
When a cross wiring cable is used, the OEM allocation of Leuchte-sets to the tail lights is broken and a bunch of coding changes is needed to make the rear tails work correctly.
So - 2 x questions ensue from my diatribe above - which sadly both have the same negative impact in your situation: - Did you install a cross-connection cable ? In which case the normal OEM allocation of Leuchte-sets won't apply!
- If the answer above is no - did you run a wire from the inner position to pin #6, Socket C on the BCM? In which case Leuchte27NSL RC6 is the correct Leuchte-set
Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 20, 2019 17:31:42 GMT
So first off, thanks for assisting. I tried the all the values recommended by wgolfmk7 with no changes.
As for the other questions, a little background. This is my second NA MK7 GTI. The first I bought new and bought VW OEM Chinese market LED tails and got the DAP harness, used OBDEleven and did the adaptation myself and all was good. This time around I got a used MK7 GTI and went the "cheaper" route and bought Helix Tails with an included harness. No instructions forced me to use the well documented DAP process. I once again used the OBEleven same as before and here I am and that's all I know.
Maybe using the DAP instructions was incorrect but I had no other route to take.
In the meantime, I have outer running lights, brake lights, amber dynamic signals inner and outer, and reverse lights. So not the end of the world, but would still like to figure this out.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 21, 2019 0:39:37 GMT
^^^^ Here's a section of the WD showing how the LEDs are connected, Check if there is a wire on pin#1 on the 2 x fittings.
To clarify - J519 is the module that OBD11 calls Central Electrics (T73c /6 means socket C pin#6 on a connector which has a total of 73 x pins) and M4 and M2 are 2 x LEDs on the inner positions.
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 21, 2019 16:23:40 GMT
Sorry but this is over my head. I appreciate your help here but what am I physically looking for?
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 24, 2019 19:41:20 GMT
And that's how you kill a help thread....
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 24, 2019 23:49:27 GMT
And that's how you kill a help thread.... ^^^^ hmmm...... no - no post has been injured or terminated in the making of this thread and thread-humanity police need not investigate the occurrence of a forum crime here !! .
My non-reply was simply my omission - I'm on a few forums and ........ well.......... it's been a busy time and I ALWAYS prioritize my real life in human form over stuff on the web (I don't apologize for my priorities: as much as I enjoy helping-out - we are all unpaid volunteers here and this stuff just isn't as important as the real world - IMO)!!!
But you are correct in reminding me that I have left an un-answered question .
So - back to your situation - clearly you are not familiar wit wiring diagrams. The one I posted shows the inner lights in question (labelled M4 and M2). See that they are joined together with the one wire that goes to the module called J519 (which I explained in my previous reply)
Also notice that the wire is connected to pin #1 on M4 and M2. This means if the lamps on your fittings are operational, there should be a physical wire on pin#1 on both sides.
The pin numbers are physically embossed on the connectors for the rear tail light fittings - so pull off the connector and find the pin numbers - physically eyeball these connectors and confirm that there is a wire on pin#1 on both sides.
Is there a wire connected to pin #1 on the rear tail light connectors and secondly, what is the color of these wires on your car?
Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 27, 2019 16:27:19 GMT
My apologies for rushing to judgement. Once I saw the WD I assumed I was gonna be on my own. I honestly thought my ignorance is what turned you away, (this dude is beyond help).
You are right that real life, or most anything else, has priority over a stranger having issues with his tail lights. I thank you again.
After looking at the inner lights again, the connector to the light itself has 5 pin connections but only three are wired. Not sure which is 1 and which is 5 but only the middle 3 have wires so clearly no wire for pin #1. The wire colors are red, green, and light brown.
Is it possible that this Chinese harness is my issue? Would a DAP harness be my fix since I clearly can't do any of my own wiring?
I humbly await your response...
Jason
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 28, 2019 0:38:40 GMT
After looking at the inner lights again, the connector to the light itself has 5 pin connections but only three are wired. Not sure which is 1 and which is 5 but only the middle 3 have wires so clearly no wire for pin #1. The wire colors are red, green, and light brown. Is it possible that this Chinese harness is my issue? Would a DAP harness be my fix since I clearly can't do any of my own wiring? I humbly await your response... Jason Jason: Humility most certainly is not necessary - you know stuff that I don't know and vice-a-versa (we are both equal where knowing stuff is concerned)
So- you have your answer - no wire - no operation (alas). I really can't comment on whether using a DAP cross connection cable would work because I have no wiring diagram (from VW) with your particular sequence of pin numbers (i.e. "middle 3"), The occupied pins on my WDs are pin# 1, 3, 4, 5. Don
PS: here is how to identify the pin-out on the connector (hold the connector with the locking mechanism at the top - and pin #5 is closest to you):
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 28, 2019 8:18:50 GMT
Ok so that explains that. So I went back to the car and bypassed the harness and plugged my OEM incandescent inner tail light and still got no light. Is some adaptation necessary to confirm the inner light works as stock before I buy a harness?
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 28, 2019 13:30:07 GMT
^^^ there is no hardware on a standard incandescent tail fitting for these particular lamps (i.e. the RC6 lamps)
Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 28, 2019 14:13:57 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean. I unplugged the harness from the aftermarket LED tail and plugged in the stock harness to the OEM incandescent tail lamp and got no power.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 28, 2019 14:52:32 GMT
^^^ I meant that on standard incandescent tails - the 2 x lamps in question (the ones that use RC6 leuchte-set) are not fitted - no hardware for these lamps
Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Jul 30, 2019 18:12:47 GMT
I guess explain that like I'm a 5 year old. Doesn't there have to be hardware for the standard tails or just no coding in RC6 for them?
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Jul 30, 2019 21:22:39 GMT
I guess explain that like I'm a 5 year old. Doesn't there have to be hardware for the standard tails or just no coding in RC6 for them? hmm.... OK -perhaps a picture can better explain.
Here's a standard OEM LED tail light fitting on a RoW mk7
Notice that there are more "red" lights on LED tail lights than on incandescent fittings (see picture below). To be able to separately switch ON/OFF these additional lights - there must be more wires at the back of the fitting connector.
If (and only if) a mk7 is factory fitted with LED tail lights - the car will have extra wires that connect from the module that OBD calls "Central Electrics" to the rear tail light connector.
As per my simple wiring diagram (previous post), the right-side LED lamp in the shaded section in my picture is connected to pin #5 on the rear connector. The other end of this wire connects to pin #6, Socket C on the connector for the Central Electrics module (this is the wire that supplies voltage to what I'm calling to the "C6" lamps). This wire is NOT present on standard mk7 cars that are factory fitted with incandescent tail lights Here's a standard incandescent tail-light fitting on a RoW mk7: Notice the reduced number of "red" lamps: the brake light on the outer fitting and the parking-light on the inner fitting. The extreme right-side lamp is the fog light on the driver's-side inner fitting and it is just a blank lens on the passenger-side inner fitting. Notice NO "C6" lamps. Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Aug 2, 2019 16:47:26 GMT
Sorry, I got all that from previous posts. The new harness requires more wiring to power the additional lights on the LEDs. What I'm getting at is when I unplug the LED tails and the new harness and plug back in my OEM incandescent inner tail light, it does not have power. In short, when I go back to stock I still don't have power on the inner lights, even when I change the adaptations on OBDEleven to stock.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 3, 2019 1:36:01 GMT
^^^^ LoL - we really do have a communications problem - I'm sure that the problem is my thick Australian accent! . When you say "inner lights" on your incandescent fittings - are you referring to the "C6" lights, or to the lights labelled "Tail light W5W" in my picture above? Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Aug 3, 2019 5:55:43 GMT
I'm an American living in Germany so all I hear is accents, I could've been more clear in retrospect.
Yes the W5W, complete assembly that installs on the hatch.
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Post by dv52 (Australia) on Aug 3, 2019 9:55:11 GMT
^^^ Ok - so if you have re-installed the old incandescent tail light fittings and removed the cross wiring harness - here are the standard settings for the 2 x W5W
Leuchte24SL HRA65 (right-side) Lasttyp 24 > 9 - allgemeine Glühlampe 27W; auch H15 Lichtfunktion A 24 > Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht) Dimmwert AB 24 > 28 Lichtansteuerung HD AB 24 > Always Leuchte23SL HLC10 (left-side) Lasttyp 23 > 9 - allgemeine Glühlampe 27W; auch H15 Lichtfunktion A 23 > Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht) Dimmwert AB 2 >28 Lichtansteuerung HD AB 23 > always
As you can see - the inner tail lamps only operate as Parking lights and they are illuminated to 28% - to distinguish these lamps from their neighboring Brake lamps (which illuminate to 1oo%)
Don
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Post by c3j3gable on Aug 6, 2019 16:07:33 GMT
Ok, so after all that, the inner tail lamps work in stock incandescent form. So effectively you've helped me eliminate all other issues and now I know the harness is the culprit.
I will eventually buy and re wire a more reputable harness. I'll jump back on this thread one way or the other to thank you again.
In the meantime, thank you for your patience and help with this.
Jason
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Post by c3j3gable on Sept 25, 2019 15:14:19 GMT
So I finally bought and installed a DAP brand harness and viola, it works! So thanks for your help and patience and narrowing down my issue.
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